Need Help with a couple of Issues


Posted: 18 Jun 2007 07:28 am


Hi, I have been recommended to use morning flight. So I downloaded the silver version a couple of weeks ago. I have found the programme to be excellent! But I do have a few questions which I feel I need some help with and would be grateful if you could offer any help or advice.

Firstly, is it possible to remove all the in-stock paper items and replace with items used by our company. Which leads me onto my next question, when adding buy as needed paper, I am able to add papers to any category, but when I produce a quote I only have the writing and book/text options available and any I have added into other categories does not appear. Also related to this topic I find that the stock in each paper category seems to be limited (for example in the writing/ bond category I am limited to 150gsm).

Secondly for the purposes of quoting is it possible to set the minimum paper quantity to 1 and have the quote incremental from there?

Now onto the paper markup. When the markup is set to, for example, 80% and the base rate of the paper 6/1000, the 1000 sheet price when quoting is giving me 16.20 and the 10,000 sheet price is giving 113.40. I have also quoted many quantities in between and concluded the formula to be:


So the 80% is being used, but 5.40 is being added to the quoted price, is this adjustable?

Finally (for now anyhow), is it possible to change the machine in the quote dialogue box, as for example if a black-only job has fine screens it would not be printed on the single color machine, it would be printed on the more capable machine which is set up as the 2 color in my presses and charged out at more per hour.

Again, I would be really grateful for your help and look forward to hearing your comments. Many thanks.
. . . . . Russ
Joined: 06 Jun 2007  Posts: 7  Location: Sheffield UK


Hi Russ,

Welcome to the Forum! You've raised some interesting questions (for now), and I'm glad you've asked them here rather than by email. That way other Morning Flight users can benefit from the answers.

1. You can deactivate all but five of the in-stock paper items. Those five are mandatory and marked with an empty circle. Why mandatory? For a number of reasons, all having to do with safeguarding the program's built-in automation. For instance, if someone were to deactivate all in-stock Bond and Text paper without adding some equivalent Buy-as-Needed Paper, it would prevent MF from quoting Letterheads or any other kind of Sheet product.

2. This, too, is likely due to the automated nature of MF. When quoting on a Sheet product, only paper in the "Writing" and "Book/Text" categories are available for selection. When quoting on a Cover product, only "Cover/Label" paper will show up in the browse window, etc.

3. Writing paper is indeed limited to 150 gsm (40 lbs). We haven't run into any Writing grade paper that would exceed that.

4. I'm not sure I fully understand the part about setting the minimum paper quantity to 1. You can set the quantity to zero by pressing the F12 Quantity button in the Quote window, then clicking the checkbox "Customer to supply Paper." If you're providing the paper, MF will use many different variables (Total run quantity, spoilage set as part of the product, paper type and category, the press used, to name just a few) to calculate the amount of paper needed for the job.

5. When the markup is set to 80%, you will get a total paper price of 180% - no other factors come into play. The question is, 180% of what? In the screen capture below, MF has added 100 sheets for spoilage, then added another 150 sheets because 8.5 x 11 Cover is sold in reams of no less than 250. At a per/1000 cost of 6.00, that brings the total paper cost to 7.50 and the 80% markup to 6.00, for a total price of 13.50.




The only time the markup gets adjusted is when "Carton-Plus Pricing" is ticked in the My Store window. However, CPlus pricing applies only to in-stock paper sold in less than full cartons. For more on that, please click here.

6. Your final question deals with a real-world scenario that is not well accommodated in the product-based version of Morning Flight. Somewhere down the road (and it's a long road, mind you, with a number of other projects ahead of it) you'll see a press-based version designed specifically for experienced estimators who know how to assign each job to the press most suited for running it.

Until then, here is a workaround: Increase the makeready and lower the run speed (raise the complexity) of the product. In other words, quote the job as a Special Product by pressing CtrlF2 in the Quote window.
. . . . .  Hal Heindel





Hey Hal, thanks for your reply. I will keep asking questions here. As you said, my stupid questions may help others!

Another problem I have encountered is, we print business cards on 400gsm silk art board. When I enter 400 gsm in our in-stock paper, under the cover/label heading it will not recognise it when quoting. I have found the maximum stock weight to be 325gsm that the quote screen will recognise. Cheers.
. . . . . Russ


No such thing, Russ, stupid questions I mean. Just the occasional dumb answer. Since silk art board isn't strictly Cover per se, you could add it as either Bristol or Tag, for which the weight limit is 505 gsm. Trouble is, you're now bumping up against the limit set for Offset presses, so that's not going to be of much help.

We've had another user ask for higher limits for Cover recently. Guess we'll have to raise the press limit to match in the next release. I'll let you know when the revised program is available for downloading. All the best,
. . . . .  Hal Heindel


Hey, next round!

I am able to add the 400gsm where you suggested, but it still does not appear in the quotation list of materials available. I can work around this by giving the stock a title with 400gsm in (not ideal but no problem really).

I do now have a problem that I have only come across tody when setting up carbonless. I do not have the option to pad when in the "new print quote" box I hit F7 to reveal box 5035A where under laminate/number/pad, there is no pad option. This does seem unique to carbonless stock, as I am able to pad on most/all other items (even business cards). Cheers.
. . . . . Russ


Easy rounds so far - keep firing away, Russ! The reason padding can't be added to Carbonless is because it's already included in the price of the Product. Just as cutting is, for instance, for any job run x-up. You can adjust pricing for padding Carbonless in My Shop > PostPress. Special padding (other than in sets) can be accommodated with My Postpress.
. . . . .  Hal Heindel




You are right, that was an easy one! I do now have a follow up question. In window 6504A where the price of padding carbonless is set, is there a way of making this account for the pads being various quantities. I ask this as some customers require pads ranging from 25/50/100 and occasionally 200, thus more time and a higher volume of backing board is necessary.
. . . . . traction kiting


I'm assuming you're using regular padding compound to pad your Carbonless, not the fan-apart variety. The easiest way to accommodate that is to create a My Postpress item (with "Priced per Set" checked) for just the backing board, then reduce the labor price for padding per 1,000 sheets if necessary.




If you do Carbonless mainly in A4, one My Postpress item may be enough. Otherwise, make two separate backing board items, one for A4 and one for A5. The quantity per pad (per set) can then be adjusted from within the Quote window.




At the risk of exposing my ignorance, I had to visit to discover what the sport is all about. Always interested in anything new (or maybe not so new) that happens to come with wings attached.
. . . . .  Hal Heindel


If you are really interested in what the sport is all about, hows about I come knock on your door (you will understand if you read the link). You will have more of an idea where the pictures were taken than me. I'll give you some lessons if you are up for a laugh! Russ.
. . . . . traction kiting


I followed the link. If you can manage a laugh as you fly over the coastal ice on Lake Ontario at 30 mph in below-zero weather, with ice crystals tearing into your face like a hundred tiny razor blades, then yes, I have just the place for you. We happen to own a "summer" beach house on the lake, 15 minutes from downtown Rochester.

As for traction kiting being legal on Lake Ontario, absolutely. It's chilly in September (your ETA), but no ice yet, so a wet-suit should do wonders for the fun factor. In the winter months, the ice extends out only about a hundred yards. After that, it's the drink. I'll play spectator at least until summer comes around again, if you don't mind.

Let me know when you get here. If you need transportation, I can pick you up at the airport. All the best,
. . . . .  Hal Heindel


Looks really nice, in the summer I will be kite landboarding, which is kind of like a small snowboard on wheels. I'll look you up when I get there as I guess you will be able to point me in the direction of some good recreation areas where I will be able to fly (good meaning flatish and the size of a couple of football pitches at least).

Thanks for the offer of a pick up from the airport, but RIT will pay all the costs I would think, but don't think that means I won't be calling in any other favours.

One such thing is, a little advice on where to rent a place (or more to the point where not to). Also, I spent a few months in Pasadina, California last year and got a real taste for The Cheesecake factory, which we don't have here in the UK. So you might be able to point me in the right direction as when I came to Rochester a few months ago I couldn't find one.
. . . . . traction kiting


Your questions are getting tougher, Russ. First, the easy part: Rochester doesn't have a Cheesecake Factory (yet - one is in the works), but we do have an excellent substitute called Cheesy Eddies. That said, I wouldn't consider any of their offerings one of your basic recommended food groups!

As you know, RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology, one of the world's leading universities for photography and graphic arts) is on the outskirts of the city. With public transportation in the U.S. being poor to nonexistent by European standards, your choice of living will depend largely on whether you'll have use of a car. FYI, our office is located in the Cultural District, Rochester's East End ( and, and my home is in the Webster suburb.

As this thread is going decidedly off-topic, I'll email you where not to look for a flat in Rochester. See you in September.
. . . . .  Hal Heindel


You are right, we are veering away from the topic of this part of the forum so, right back to the dull work stuff.

Is it possible to add the name of a paper vendor/merchant to the in stock paper items? This would help as it would mean I would be able to empty my brain a little and let others at work take some workload off.
. . . . . traction kiting


The reason there's no vendor assigned to in-Stock paper is that, except for Classic Laid (which can be deactivated), in-Stock is generally vendor-neutral. Commodity Bond for instance, affectionately known as "Bathroom Bond" in local printing circles, usually comes from the vendor who either has it on sale that week or offers the lowest price on any given day. To assign and lock in a specific vendor would defeat the purpose.

Because in-Stock paper is quoted by Morning Flight in broken reams or partial boxes of envelopes - the only category to do so - new items should be added judiciously. Too many offerings, too great a choice for your customers, and you may find yourself with a room full of odd lot paper.
. . . . .  Hal Heindel